I'm kind of for...I was and it *did* teach me right from wrong. There does obviously have to be limitations however, you know...not smacking kids because they get a C in their homework or something; when they do something that is wrong and they know it as they do it (stealing for example) then I'm for it.
Posted by Salvy_Mic (Member # 13384) on :
I believe in spanking, but only as the very last resort and when the child is behaving extremely badly. Just from personal experience, most of my cousins and myself were spanked by our parents for doing certain things. And it taught us respect. My sister got away with a ton of stuff that I'd get spanked for growing up, and she has a serious attitude now, doesn't respect my mother.
Being from Sweden makes me a weakass kid(joke) (not really), so no beating was necessary. Hitting a child in Sweden is serious business to spank or even just shake a child. It has been a law here sience 1979. I myself think that hitting a child is wrong no matter how messed* up the kid is. The problem is not that the kid is listening. The problem is that the parents don't care about the child or the child hangs out with the wrong kind of people.
Me myself had to learn the hard way, I hang out with the wrong people and ended up with a dispute with the law. Now, luckily for me the swedish police system does not take a crime for somone at a young age very seriously. Our policy is to free rather than convict and therefore I am against spanking. A person learns best from his/hers own mistakes instead of learning the lesson from his/hers parents backhand...
In exchange for hitting your child you may mess* up the relation between parent and child
* replace mess to f*ck / f*cked
Posted by Andy-Laa (Member # 31511) on :
The people that have put "for" don't be afraid of posting...you wont be condemned as a child-beater, I'm just curious as to opinions...
Posted by sofatater (Member # 4209) on :
I'm for it. My parents spanked me for doing wrong. If used correctly, pain can be a good tool for teaching right from wrong. If you touch something hot, it hurts. You learned that touching hot things is harmful to you so you don't do it anymore. If you beat up your little sister and mom or dad spanks you for it, it hurts and you learn that beating up your little sister is wrong and will cause you pain. So, you don't do it anymore. Etc, etc. (However, I don't condone raising welts or bruises) Corporal punishment was used in school when I was a kid. It was a great method of deterring unacceptable behavior in the class room. When it's use was stopped in schools we began to see bad things happen. i.e. Back in the 60's, 70's and early 80's, how many times did we hear of a child bringing a knife or gun to school?
We have bred the society that we now deal with on a daily basis through our actions or lack there of when it comes to teaching our children. They learn from us.
Simply don't use a child or another person as a means of releasing your pent up frustrations. Because at some point someone is going to come along and "SPANK" the hell out of you. Teaching you that hitting innocent people is not and will not be tolerated.
Posted by mclaren f1 2003 (Member # 2934) on :
im for it in extreme cases. i got spanked and i behave way better and have more respect for my parents than some of my friends that only got "time outs"
people shouldnt believe that everyone who gets spanked will turn out great though...
Posted by Andy-Laa (Member # 31511) on :
quote:Originally posted by sofatater: Corporal punishment was used in school when I was a kid. It was a great method of deterring unacceptable behavior in the class room. When it's use was stopped in schools we began to see bad things happen.
To hijack my own thread on a semi-related topic, just a random fact I'm putting out there: apparently people now, who were children in your era (say, born in the 50's) did receive this punishment and psychological tests have proven that a lot of those kids grew up to have masochistic fetishes.
They liked being beaten up as it was a release from the actual pain they were receiving - not at the time, but as they matured and grew it became their fetish and they all went to clubs in Soho to get abused etc...just a random thing I'm throwing out there as a stand-alone comment.
Posted by National (Member # 8568) on :
That's a VERY good question, Andy.
I'm for it. I don't really mind when people spank their child, as long as they are not beating them up. If I ever have a child, I would spank it if it were a boy. But I don't see myself ever spanking my child if it were a girl. I guess I would let her mother do the spanking for me.
Let me tell you guys something I heard someone say on some talk show a few years ago. The topic was whether you should be your child's disciplinarian? Someone in the audience said that both parents have got to be on the same page when trying to make the family work (no duh, right?) But listen to this: This guy went on to say that one day his son came up to him and told him that his mother hit him. He assumed that there must've been a good reason for his mother to hit him, so he hit him, too. He never asked his son why the mother hit him, he just did. He feels that by that, it gives the child the message that he can't get away with whatever kind of behavior that got him in trouble in the first place. He wanted to give the child the message that his parents are a cohesive tag team. The child probably felt that by telling his father, he would get into a shouting match with his mother so that she does not hit him again. That child's plan backfired.
So I guess that's a good advice to take into account especially for those who are parents-to-be.
--National
Posted by Elvzz (Member # 14178) on :
Yep - esp when they are crawling to a light socket or someting like that - communication is the best as they get older but sometimes need to keep your pimp hand stong lol
Posted by Keyfeet (Member # 27313) on :
Agianst. I feel that there are other ways of getting the point across.
Posted by Hal (Member # 3484) on :
Totally against it. It should be illegal, and it is over here in Germany. When I see it in public (ususally only white trash type people do it) I always intervene.
-Hal-
Posted by den2 (Member # 20517) on :
I'm for it if it's not to hard, you can get your point across without beating your children. This world has become way to overprotective and pussyfied. If we keep treating our kids like babies, the next generation is gonna be a bunch of whining pussies.
Posted by Ophillia (Member # 29787) on :
im FOR it. i by no stretch of the imagination beat my children but a well placed swat on the butt to get my point across has been effective. now adays its a rarity if i have to spank them. . kids need boundries and rules. now that they are a lil older and they understand better actions and consequences other techinques work.
[ November 13, 2009, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: Ophillia ]
Posted by National (Member # 8568) on :
quote:Originally posted by den2: This world has become way to overprotective and pussyfied. If we keep treating our kids like babies, the next generation is gonna be a bunch of whining pussies.
That was funny!
Posted by Five For Feet (Member # 33596) on :
quote:Originally posted by Hal: Totally against it. It should be illegal, and it is over here in Germany. When I see it in public (ususally only white trash type people do it) I always intervene.
-Hal-
I'm interested to know Hal, do you have children?
Posted by Toetapper (Member # 6473) on :
Well, I'm all for it. As abow says "we learn from our mistakes". A good spanking hastens the lesson.
Children (and far too many adults) need to learn that actions have consequences; both positive and negative. Certainly, a spanking is bringing home the lesson of a negative consequence.
Though I have a background in Psychology, I am trying to share my thoughts on a less than scholarly level. In the realm of APPROPRIATE spanking, there are, I think two kinds (call them "Informed" and "Uninformed":
1) For "Uninformed" spanking, lets take the age-old example of a young child reaching for a hot stove. One pulls the child's hand away and delivers a quick swat. This substitutes a brief and harmless pain (and lesson) for one that could be a lengthy and, possibly, damaging one. The reason that I would call this "Uninformed" is that the adult has not identified this as a forbidden behavior.
2) An "Informed" spanking usually involves an older child (one which would likely know better than to put a hand on a hot stove). Here, the parent is able to discuss behaviors or acts that acceptable or unacceptable with the child. Actions that will be rewarded and/or punished can be clearly delineated. Though there are a variety of punishments for bad behavior available to the parent, spanking should be included on the list and this should be clearly explained to the child (the consequence of this act is a "time-out" while the result of another act is a spanking). Such a spanking should never be delivered in anger but as dispassionately as the sum of an equation.
Spankings delivered out of frustration, anger, or rage are never a good lesson (and, at that point, teetering on the brink of abuse). The child has to know why the punishment is being delivered; must know that "if I do X, Y will follow".
I should point out that, if the parenting is done right, no more than 4 or 5 spankings should come up in a lifetime. More than that and there is either something wrong with the parent or the child is just a spawn from Hell that should probably have been ritually sacrificed.
Next time, I'll discuss why I believe that shock-collars and cattle-prods should be in every parent's armamentarium.
Posted by Hal (Member # 3484) on :
quote:Originally posted by Five For Feet:
quote:Originally posted by Hal: Totally against it. It should be illegal, and it is over here in Germany. When I see it in public (ususally only white trash type people do it) I always intervene.
-Hal-
I'm interested to know Hal, do you have children?
Yes, I have two children.
-Hal-
Posted by Andy-Laa (Member # 31511) on :
One thing that gets me about the "no-spanking" method of parenting...all the offspring of people I know adopt that method are utterly spoiled little brats who know EXACTLY how to wrap their parents around their fingers; there's no real repercussions when they do something wrong...so they just get their way.
One such time was when I was on holiday in Menorca and a family we went with came along too. I was maybe 14 and the guy I'm thinking of was about 10-11 I suppose. We were in a bar (as is the norm in Spain) and the little turd said to his dad: Turd: "I want a whiskey" Dad: "You can't have one, T, you wouldn't like it" Turd: "I WANT A WHISKEY THOUGH!" *Welling up etc*
[He ran off to the other side of the road with his drink - quite embarassing seeing as you don't take glasses out of the bar and the owners were friends of ours. The parents talked for a bit (maybe 30 seconds) and went on over to him; talked to him for 5 minutes and then came back.]
Dad: "One whiskey please" Turd: "I don't like it dad." *Leaves it* Mum: "That's okay "
Posted by sofatater (Member # 4209) on :
quote:Originally posted by Andy-Laa:
quote:Originally posted by sofatater: Corporal punishment was used in school when I was a kid. It was a great method of deterring unacceptable behavior in the class room. When it's use was stopped in schools we began to see bad things happen.
To hijack my own thread on a semi-related topic, just a random fact I'm putting out there: apparently people now, who were children in your era (say, born in the 50's) did receive this punishment and psychological tests have proven that a lot of those kids grew up to have masochistic fetishes.
They liked being beaten up as it was a release from the actual pain they were receiving - not at the time, but as they matured and grew it became their fetish and they all went to clubs in Soho to get abused etc...just a random thing I'm throwing out there as a stand-alone comment.
I'm a little confused about the "facts" that you mentioned. Where did you hear of these "facts"?
Corporal punishment in school was being sent to the principal's office and getting spanked with a paddle. I don't recall anyone that went back for a second session during their school career and I've never encountered anyone with a masochistic fetish caused by this form of punishment. Maybe from being physically abused at home by a drunken parent or an abusive sibling. There is a big difference in spanking a child for discipline and child abuse. The latter would certainly cause long term mental damage.
I think toetapper explained it better than my attempt. And you (Andy-Laa) just cited a prime example of what happens when you don't discipline your kids.
Posted by Toetapper (Member # 6473) on :
Aww, hell, I tried to quote sofatater and add to it and it kept coming out wrong so here is what I wanted to add:
A couple of citations would help your case here, Andy-Laa. At best, your evidence is specious.
Mild/benign forms of corporal punishment have been used for hundreds (maybe thousands?) of years, yet I don't see historical accounts of generations of simpering masochists founding nations (the guys who signed the Declaration of Independence all were subject to such consequences as kids - check their memoirs). Just an historical notion.
I'm certainly no worse for the wear for the spankings I received...and from the vantage point of retrospect, I deserved more than what I got. Still, I got enough that the point was made.
Posted by Andy-Laa (Member # 31511) on :
quote:Originally posted by sofatater:
quote:Originally posted by Andy-Laa:
quote:Originally posted by sofatater: Corporal punishment was used in school when I was a kid. It was a great method of deterring unacceptable behavior in the class room. When it's use was stopped in schools we began to see bad things happen.
To hijack my own thread on a semi-related topic, just a random fact I'm putting out there: apparently people now, who were children in your era (say, born in the 50's) did receive this punishment and psychological tests have proven that a lot of those kids grew up to have masochistic fetishes.
They liked being beaten up as it was a release from the actual pain they were receiving - not at the time, but as they matured and grew it became their fetish and they all went to clubs in Soho to get abused etc...just a random thing I'm throwing out there as a stand-alone comment.
I'm a little confused about the "facts" that you mentioned. Where did you hear of these "facts"?
Corporal punishment in school was being sent to the principal's office and getting spanked with a paddle. I don't recall anyone that went back for a second session during their school career and I've never encountered anyone with a masochistic fetish caused by this form of punishment. Maybe from being physically abused at home by a drunken parent or an abusive sibling. There is a big difference in spanking a child for discipline and child abuse. The latter would certainly cause long term mental damage.
I think toetapper explained it better than my attempt. And you (Andy-Laa) just cited a prime example of what happens when you don't discipline your kids.
In England, it was quite different. The teachers just abused the power they had (They were allowed to cane students as they pleased). EG: teacher would ask the whole class to, individually, recite the French verb "to be" - "etre". The minute ANYONE got ANY PART of the verb wrong, the whole class got caned.
And I was watching top 10 sexual fetishes of Britain or something, some years ago. Feet were #2
[ November 15, 2009, 06:26 AM: Message edited by: Andy-Laa ]
Posted by LeDaemon (Member # 198) on :
I'll have to jump in on this and also say that corporal punishment is not a bad thing when done for the effect of curbing bad behavior for a kid that doesn't understand the consequences of their bad behavior.
As one of the older dudes on this forum I can say that I got pops in school and at home too. Back in those days though in school I got one swat on the rear from the little red paddle with the word "stop" in front of the entire class. I recall that ending my spitwad career as well as anyone planning on doing that in my 1st grade reading class. Caused no lasting pain, but did give a lot of embarassment and made a point.
With my own daughter never had to do a real spanking, but a swat on the hand when she was little was necessary sometimes if she was trying to do something (say stick a bobby pin in a electric out lit.) You couldn't tell a two year old not to do it in the moment because someone that age doesn't understand the concept of electrocution and death, but they do know the meaning of a pop on the wrist followed by "NO!" means better not do that again.
Posted by Andy-Laa (Member # 31511) on :
quote:Originally posted by Toetapper: Mild/benign forms of corporal punishment have been used for hundreds (maybe thousands?) of years, yet I don't see historical accounts of generations of simpering masochists founding nations (the guys who signed the Declaration of Independence all were subject to such consequences as kids - check their memoirs). Just an historical notion.
Do you really think political powers would admit they like being beaten up, sexually though?
I'm not saying all do, in fact, I'll rephrase: I subscribe to the theory that [what I said above].
It's a theory that may be wrong. So is evolution.
Posted by sofatater (Member # 4209) on :
Andy-Laa, thanks for the response. I had no idea that things were like that over there. That's insane!
Posted by Andy-Laa (Member # 31511) on :
^Used to be hahaha You're about the same age as my dad (Oh I know you wanted to hear that one ) and that was one of the stories he told me.
He doesn't like being beaten either Posted by bluetoelover (Member # 14736) on :
I'm all for it. On smack on the ass educates better then "reasoning". I mean have you tried to "reason" with a 5 year old throwing a massive temper tantrum? The kid acquires selective hearing, meaning that he will only hear you "give in".
Although this summer, we just finished paving a parking lot and there was two little boys(maybe 4 at the most) watching us. The "father" if you can call him one said to them don't go near it. Well soon as they had a chance one of them ran onto it only wearing sandals....blistering hot ashphalt too! His punishment was already served but the "father" felt the need to kick him in the ass and then have the balls to look at us and give a smug smile!!
We were just as guilty as he was though for not intervening.
Posted by Five For Feet (Member # 33596) on :
quote:Originally posted by Hal:
quote:Originally posted by Five For Feet:
quote:Originally posted by Hal: Totally against it. It should be illegal, and it is over here in Germany. When I see it in public (ususally only white trash type people do it) I always intervene.
-Hal-
I'm interested to know Hal, do you have children?
Yes, I have two children.
-Hal-
That surprises me a little. So you would "intervene" if you saw a parent disciplining their child in public by giving them a spanking for bad behavior? Now I'm not talking about someone beating the crap out of a kid, that's different, and by all means intervene. But a smack or two to the bottom of a child that's obviously mis-behaving is simply good parenting in my view. It's our duty as parents to teach our children how to behave, and spankings have been an essential tactic toward that end since the beginning of time I imagine. I see waaayyy to many knuckleheads today who could have used a good pop here and there as a kid. Just my 2 cents, but in my opinion you should be going up to those parents and thanking them for putting in check someone who might have grown up to stick you for your social security check (assume you get one of those where you live. For that matter, assuming I will even get one!)
Posted by Hal (Member # 3484) on :
quote:Originally posted by Five For Feet:
quote:Originally posted by Hal:
quote:Originally posted by Five For Feet:
quote:Originally posted by Hal: Totally against it. It should be illegal, and it is over here in Germany. When I see it in public (ususally only white trash type people do it) I always intervene.
-Hal-
I'm interested to know Hal, do you have children?
Yes, I have two children.
-Hal-
That surprises me a little. So you would "intervene" if you saw a parent disciplining their child in public by giving them a spanking for bad behavior? Now I'm not talking about someone beating the crap out of a kid, that's different, and by all means intervene. But a smack or two to the bottom of a child that's obviously mis-behaving is simply good parenting in my view. It's our duty as parents to teach our children how to behave, and spankings have been an essential tactic toward that end since the beginning of time I imagine. I see waaayyy to many knuckleheads today who could have used a good pop here and there as a kid. Just my 2 cents, but in my opinion you should be going up to those parents and thanking them for putting in check someone who might have grown up to stick you for your social security check (assume you get one of those where you live. For that matter, assuming I will even get one!)
Sorry, but I whole heartily disagree with you. Since I am not a conservative I don`t believe that something is automatically good just because it has been "an essential tactic (...) since the beginning of time". In fact I believe our society needs to reevalute and rethink a lot of the tactics that have been going on for the last decades or centuries. I also don`t think that spanking a child automatically turns it into a so called "valuable member of society". In fact, a lot of studies show a connection between children punished with violence (because that`s what spanking, slapping, caning is...if you donīt agree try it on a few adults and see what the judge has to say when you find yourself in front of court) and their later psychological (mis)behaviour. If you are interested, here are a couple of interesting links: Article 1 Article 2 Article 2
(I am aware that there have been hot debates concerning this topic since the late 1960s and that there are also studies from conservatives and the catholic church that try showing scientific facts for corporal punishment of children)
But apart from that, I was not talking about a gentle smack on the buttock or the hand...the last time I intervened a grown man was smacking his circa 8-year-old daughter in the face at least 20-30 times in about two minutes....all this happened in a public train. I did not see any "bad behaviour" on her part...but even if I had it would not have justified his behaviour. I had the impression that this father uses this kind of punishment multiple times a day....it seemed like a routine. In my opinion this case points out that there is a fine line between spanking and abusive behaviour. As I mentioned before, spanking your child is against the law here in Germany...so it was my duty to intervene.
-Hal-
Posted by Hal (Member # 3484) on :
This morning I read in my German newspaper that France are now also debating on passing a law that will ban spanking of children.
I have 2 kids, i live in england, and there behaviour is impeccable. I believe you can discipline kids with only the occasional short sharp tap on the back of the hand, if they are deliberately annoying/naughty. Their school doesn't have punishment, apart from "the naughty step", but has the best rep in somerset. The raising of your voice is a far more deadly weapon i find, my kids can't bear to hear me raise my voice, cos they know it means they will be deprived of food/toys/etc. I know the harsh beaters are thick fuckers from council estates, who are extremely selfish, and put their own needs before their kids, Drugs/Drink/Electrical goods/etc. They are usually overweight, and arrogant bastards, who spend their social money on tattoos/peircings/betting/finger nails, and other useless bollocks. And need to be culled, for the sake of the majority. If everyone put their kids first, disciplined them well,(meaning keeping them in line, when they do something dangerous, or socially unacceptable, or just delibarately to get at you)life would be good. Unfortunately, these people are in a never ending circle of abuse of every kind. Discipline provides you with morals, willpower, and moderation, and these are obviously, and never will be part of a lot of peoples lives. If you read my whole monologue, Thanks.
Posted by den2 (Member # 20517) on :
LOL I'm glad you liked my play on words National!! Posted by Five For Feet (Member # 33596) on :
quote:Originally posted by Hal: This morning I read in my German newspaper that France are now also debating on passing a law that will ban spanking of children.
Hal, I respect your opinion, and appreciate you sharing the information you posted. I have no desire to go back and forth with you, so I'll just say we have different views about spanking. I don't disagree with you however, about the abuse you witnessed against that 8 year old girl, and am glad you intervened there. Again, that's not what I condone, nor do I think the line is thin between that and what I'm talking about.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
"
![[Cry]](cry.gif)
![[Tongue]](tongue.gif)
) and that was one of the stories he told me.![[Laugh]](graemlins/laugh.gif)