I think it's rather absurd for Rush Limbaugh to say those four words about Obama - some people on CNN interpret that as I don't want his policies to succeed, and comparisons even came out about to when the Dixie Chicks slammed Bush back in his presidency. I take that as something non American to say.
Posted by Salvy_Mic (Member # 13384) on :
Limbaugh is a blowhard, but I didn't think he'd stoop this low. That's the last thing you'd ever want your president, no matter how much you disagree with his views to do.
I didn't want Bush as president, but I was hoping he would not fail or mess up during his administration. It's the least you can do if your guy didn't win.
Then again, without a link, who knows if this is true, because this is the first I've heard about it. So for the time being, I'll take it with a grain of salt.
Posted by LeDaemon (Member # 198) on :
Has the radio broadcast in the link.
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
His economic policies will fail just because of what the underlying end result is designed to do. The more paper we print, the less it becomes worth and foreign countries stop buying our debt. He is signing away everything with more stimulus packages guys.
Posted by footjoyboy (Member # 26478) on :
Limbaugh likes his package stimulated in the Dominican Republic with a mouth full of Viagra. Posted by Toetapper (Member # 6473) on :
Thanks, LD, for providing the link. I hope that folks will listen to the recorded version as it goes well past the printed quote and provides some elucidation to it.
Though I have some disagreements with Limbaugh, I thoroughly understand his point. I have to side with him in this matter.
As I view it, for our President to "succeed", he must do those things which will benefit our country, as a whole; to augment the individual's liberty from government and diminish the power and reach of government from our daily lives. If this is his aim, I do wish him success and will do all that I can to support him.
In his first seven days, Mr. Obama has done nothing to further these notions.
Based on what little he has seen fit for us to know about him, President Obama's goals are entirely antithetical to the beliefs I expressed above.
Thus, I have to hope that our President fails to achieve what he seeks while hoping that our Founding Fathers can withstand the assault that is planned against them.
Posted by ucflyeah (Member # 32674) on :
188 republicans voted "no" on the latest "spending" package with 11 dems voting "no" also.
gotta agree with wrinklesguy.
is this the hope and change we were promised? talk about reaching across the aisle.
Posted by Fate111 (Member # 2627) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wrinklesguy: His economic policies will fail just because of what the underlying end result is designed to do. The more paper we print, the less it becomes worth and foreign countries stop buying our debt. He is signing away everything with more stimulus packages guys.
Agreed! And it needed to be said! This has failure written all over it.
What most people don't understand is that this so-called "stimulus package" won't put people to work right away. The jobs that it will create will take a year or more to materialize (i.e. the "shovel and ditch projects") due to permits, bureaucracy red tape, etc., and at a cost of over $200,000 to the taxpayers for each job.
The "tax break" amounts to a $1,000 rebate per working individual. At this point, how is that going to help stimulate anything?
On top of that, all this money that's being doled out now is being borrowed on interest. This trillion or so dollars that's being proposed to spend will soon have interest needed to be paid in the billions. That, in turn, is going to cause hyper-inflation - i.e. EVERYTHING is going to go up in price, and by a huge margin.
As I stated in a post about the new president and his policies just before he got elected, try not to spend all of that "econmic stimulus rebate" (read "tax break") in one place. You all are gonna need it to pay for everything else when all of it starts going up in the next couple of years. Don't start whining when it does and this whole thing blows up.
My God! Then what will the liberal tv and newspapers have to say, since they'll have nothing positive to report on Obama and the love affair will be over?
Posted by bluesman4123 (Member # 23214) on :
I can assure you that I don't know alot about economics, but the fact that the Wall Street "biggies" got around 18 billion in bonuses, after we put all that money into them stinks, as, in my opinion, does the Republican party. Bush and Cheney blew a trillion or so on a useless, uncalled-for war. And who profited from the war? Halliburton, etc. Bush and Cheney are both heartless bastards and should be tried for war crimes!!!!!!
Posted by bluesman4123 (Member # 23214) on :
Sorry that I got off the "Limbaugh" subject a bit. I used to listen to Rush almost every day during the Clinton years, not because I agreed with anything he said, but, as a friend told me about it, listen to your enemies. Rush has the idiotic segment of the right-wingers by the gonads, and you can bet he's laughing his fat ass off all the way to the bank!!!!!
Posted by Salvy_Mic (Member # 13384) on :
I wonder if people realize that FDR's New Deal was a series of huge spending projects in order to pick the country out of the Great Depression.
It may sound like anathema, but when you are in recession, you actually have to spend money in order to get yourself out. The trick is knowing how to spend that limited money wisely. It also takes a lot of time to get yourself out of the hole. It took the FDR administration 9 years to start getting to a good place before World War II. Obama has 4, perhaps 8. I've said it before, but so long as he's able to set the country up for even more progress for the next president, he's done his job. Asking or expecting him to wave his hand and make all our problems go away is unrealistic.
If we get out of this recession within these next 8 years, it would be a miracle of all the right elements coming together at the exact moment we needed them to.
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
Right, and it took the war itself to create enough jobs and everything else to get us out of the great depression..the 9 nine years FDR took did nothing to get us out!
Posted by ucflyeah (Member # 32674) on :
right on wrinklesguy! FDR did more to keep us IN the great depression than to get us out some would argue.
Posted by Salvy_Mic (Member # 13384) on :
And some would also argue that without the projects he set up, our infrastructure would have been woefully inadequate to deal with a massive war, inasmuch as we wouldn't have had an infrastructure to go to war with. FDR got the country off it's knees; the war forced it to get up and run like it's life depended on it, which it did.
As it is with most of life, you can't have it just one way. Balance is the rule at the end of the day, and this country has always been at it's best when it's applied the right balance of left and right leaning policies. When this country gets seriously screwed up, it's usually because it ends ups skewing heavily in one direction or the other in terms of it's policies and especially how they pertain to the economic health. Herbert Hoover was unfairly saddled with the fallout of the laissez-faire policies employed by the previous president, Calvin Coolidge. Sure, the country saw unprecedented economic growth, but it also grew a potentially noxious bubble that eventually burst because it was left unchecked by Coolidge's tendency to let big business do whatever it wanted. That burst led to the Great Depression, and Hoover happened to be in office when it happened.
Posted by Toetapper (Member # 6473) on :
quote:Originally posted by Salvy_Mic: I wonder if people realize that FDR's New Deal was a series of huge spending projects in order to pick the country out of the Great Depression.
It may sound like anathema, but when you are in recession, you actually have to spend money in order to get yourself out. The trick is knowing how to spend that limited money wisely. It also takes a lot of time to get yourself out of the hole. It took the FDR administration 9 years to start getting to a good place before World War II. Obama has 4, perhaps 8. I've said it before, but so long as he's able to set the country up for even more progress for the next president, he's done his job. Asking or expecting him to wave his hand and make all our problems go away is unrealistic.
If we get out of this recession within these next 8 years, it would be a miracle of all the right elements coming together at the exact moment we needed them to.
Absolutely right. The moment that I find myself $10,000 in debt, I charge $50,000 on my credit cards.
I've got to be at least $60,000 ahead. Right?
I agree that money spent by the government must be spent wisely. Examples, anyone?
Despite the propaganda, FDR's policies ensured that the USA (and the world) remained in depression.
What cured the Great Depression was World War II. I would like to find a solution to our current economic problems that circumvents a similar solution.
Once again, it is clear that those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it.
Please pardon me if I seem to be taking you to task on a personal level. That's not the case. I am only disputing the reasoning.
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
Things were mighty different during the late 30's and what FDR needed to do to build the war machine for WWII than what we have now. The current admin thinks that by building $10 million dog parks in California or $100,000 traffic camera systems up that it will bring the economy back, that is PURE PORK BARREL of likes no one has seen and they are lying to Americans. I read the 50 page or whatever it was "Plan" for America Obama put out before the election and remember distinctly how he promised no Pork. All we see is a bunch of sizzle and the smell of bacon cooking and no food on the stove from this. I would prepare yourselves for anything this year.
Posted by LeDaemon (Member # 198) on :
Here's another thing of note as well. Minimum wage takes another increase later this year. Currently in Texas its currently $6.55 and in July it'll jump up to $7.25.
Expect more inflation across the nation!
Posted by bluesman4123 (Member # 23214) on :
It's weird that we can spend a trillion dollars killing and maiming US and Iraqi citizens, but we can't spend the same amount to try to get our economy back on line. Of course, take into consideration that I know zilch about economics!!!!
Posted by bison4me (Member # 21530) on :
OK, a lot of folks seem to have criticism over the stimulus. Fine, I don't have a problem with that. However, nobody is providing alternatives or solutions either.
Obama has the brightest economic minds in the country surrounding him and advising him on the matter. If they're so out of touch with what to do, then speak up!
People voted against the stimulus OK fine, I can dig it, what's your alternative? Its real easy to say it won't work, now you need to say what will.
Posted by Robotron2084 (Member # 33263) on :
quote:Originally posted by bison4me: OK, a lot of folks seem to have criticism over the stimulus. Fine, I don't have a problem with that. However, nobody is providing alternatives or solutions either.
What he said...
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
Cut out the freakin' social stimulus articles in this thing for God's sake. Focus on wiping credit debt off, housing loans,car loans..give the people a fresh start then start creating jobs with the rest of the money. Guys I urge you to go read what's in this bill, it's un freakin believable what these so called "brightest economic minds" have planned. Let me go up to Capitol Hill and I'll help. No one is ALLOWED to voice opposition or provide alternatives from the population level {you and I}..it's their job to usher in a new currency and global order so why not waste money on useless crap to further it along? C'mon
Posted by bison4me (Member # 21530) on :
quote:Originally posted by LeDaemon: Here's another thing of note as well. Minimum wage takes another increase later this year. Currently in Texas its currently $6.55 and in July it'll jump up to $7.25.
Expect more inflation across the nation!
Actually LD, I'd expect more deflation than anything. The economy is retracting, there's no money flowing, banks aren't lending, and this trend is spreading throughout the world.
People may hate the stimulus, but at least its something, I'd piss on a spark plug right now if I'd thought it would help. We're in a terrible, terrible mess and the worlds' in it together. But I believe, like anything else, we'll get through it, just like the Depression, but it will be because we all tackled it together.
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
Can I have some of your Kool-Aid? I am thirsty..lol
Posted by Elvzz (Member # 14178) on :
Oh and wait till all the small business owners that voted for this orator realize that the S-Corps will have to pay FICA on their distributions. Which essentially will cripple small biz and negate the S-Corp election. I am sick and tired of double taxation in this country and lack of employers' leadership. Who do you think creates jobs, the model or the producers?
"it's back the the lab again, yo." Eminem
Posted by bison4me (Member # 21530) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wrinklesguy: Can I have some of your Kool-Aid? I am thirsty..lol
I've haven't exactly heard anyone on CNBC asking you to rush down to DC to rewrite the bill either to save us all.
Posted by bison4me (Member # 21530) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elvzz: Oh and wait till all the small business owners that voted for this orator realize that the S-Corps will have to pay FICA on their distributions. Which essentially will cripple small biz and negate the S-Corp election. I am sick and tired of double taxation in this country and lack of employers' leadership. Who do you think creates jobs, the model or the producers?
"it's back the the lab again, yo." Eminem
Like McCain would have the fixed the economy by now.
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
Is there an echo in here? Read my post 2 above brother..we the People aren't allowed to walk in there and demand anything. Although a revolution at this point would be great, say 500,000 march on congress and take it over.
Posted by ucflyeah (Member # 32674) on :
count me in for the revolution. i'll drive, my van seats 7, who needs a ride from ohio?
Posted by Toetapper (Member # 6473) on :
quote:Originally posted by bison4me: [/qb]
Like McCain would have the fixed the economy by now. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Actually, I believe that McCain would have done nothing at this point; this would be far better for the economy than duplicating failed experiments or just throwing money away for the sake of spending money.
Every doctor knows that there are certain medical conditions that are better left untreated (a simple example would be the common cold). Let the body heal itself - which it does, given time.
The notion that I'm trying to present here is an axiom among Economists: "Let the market work".
There is just one entity in America that needs a "Bail-Out" - the Taxpayer. If our governing bodies feel the need to spend money, it should be returned to the people who created the wealth. They are the ones who know how to spend it "wisely".
Who knows better how to spend the money YOU earned? You...or some bunch of twerps on Capitol Hill?
Rather than reiterate what the various talk-show hosts have said, I would rather that the reader consider what I've expressed above.
Posted by bluesman4123 (Member # 23214) on :
Seems that we all are forgetting that McCain said the economy was strong just a short time before we found out just how bad it was, remember?????? Maybe he would have let Joe the Plumber straighten this mess out for us!!!!!
Posted by LeDaemon (Member # 198) on :
Here's the way to get everyone out of trouble. Divide the proposed stimulus package up amongst us taxpaying citizens. People pay off their mortgages and credit debt and then go shopping for a new American car.
I'm a little wired on coffee, but it sounds good to me for some reason... perhaps the caffeine high.
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
ToeTapper & LeDaemon have it correct! That is exactly the way we will fix our economy. In the meantime while everyone's bills are paid, they will start to consume and spend at our failing retail outlets keeping them in business also keeping more jobs in tact while others with paid off debts start a bunch of businesses and hire more people...you get the jest of that process. So what about these "bright minds behind obama"? LOL
Posted by Elvzz (Member # 14178) on :
quote:Originally posted by bison4me:
quote:Originally posted by Elvzz: Oh and wait till all the small business owners that voted for this orator realize that the S-Corps will have to pay FICA on their distributions. Which essentially will cripple small biz and negate the S-Corp election. I am sick and tired of double taxation in this country and lack of employers' leadership. Who do you think creates jobs, the model or the producers?
"it's back the the lab again, yo." Eminem
Like McCain would have the fixed the economy by now.
"I don't want to get into this with you man." Bender - "Breakfast Club"
Posted by bluetoelover (Member # 14736) on :
The problem with LD's plan is that once the government pays off the average American's debt(s) the average American will just plunge right back into debt. That is why when you go to a bank and get a consolidation loan they cut up your credit cards and/or place a mark on your credit to basically refuse you any credit over say $3000(just an example $ amount) so you don't go back in the hole.
So LD's idea in theory sounds great and a helluva lot more beneficial then to give a bailout to a company who pays their exec's millions of dollars but claims to be broke, it would only be a temporary fix lasting a year or two if that, that is unless they placed a stipulation or a "credit cap" on the average American once their debt is paid off.
Posted by Toetapper (Member # 6473) on :
What LD mentioned has been proposed by Texas Representative Gomert. It is a capitol idea (yeah, the pun is intended).
The money goes to the people who made it to begin with. These are the folks that drive the economy as they know better how to spend their money than the tax-cheats who legislate from the alabaster halls on Capitol Hill.
As for a "temporary fix", the money will continue to circulate in the economy as long as it is left out of governmental hands. Once the money leaves the "Private Sector" and goes to the Fed, it is fixed away from those who made it and can use it.
Holy Cow, I could go on here. It is painfully clear that most people don't understand the flow of money. Then again, I shouldn't be surprised, most people who use computors don't understand the flow of electrons that power their machines.
Posted by Soopaman Lova (Member # 2743) on :
Boy...this world I live in.
Posted by footjoyboy (Member # 26478) on :
For everyone that says WW2 got us out of the Great Depression, keep in mind that the military and military spending is "Socialism". In the case of WW2, it was Socialism on steroids.
Posted by Robotron2084 (Member # 33263) on :
quote:Originally posted by footgirl0226: My husband listens to Rush, I dont but... all I know is Dem or Rep or Indp. I hope he doesnt fail and America gets on its feet again. Period. I hope for the best.
I hope he doesn't fail either.
Posted by ucflyeah (Member # 32674) on :
when this presidents term/s are over the dems will believe he succeeded and the repubs will believe he failed. i think, despite what obama told us about change, that the political parties remain intact and the only thing that has changed is now the dems will receive all the criticism...despite the fact that it will take the mainstream media at least a year to come around to that conclusion.
Posted by Toetapper (Member # 6473) on :
Hadn't forgotten that McCain claimed that the fundamentals of our economy were strong; and he was correct at the time.
Our beneficent and glorious leader made the same claim recently...right after he signed legislation that virtually kicked-out the underpinnings of it.
Posted by StevenPHH (Member # 3398) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wrinklesguy: The current admin thinks that by building $10 million dog parks in California or $100,000 traffic camera systems up that it will bring the economy back, that is PURE PORK BARREL of likes no one has seen and they are lying to Americans.
I see that differently.
What if your company built "dog parks" and you employed X amount of people. Those people would be put to work and the money they make would be spent on cars, houses, LCD tvs and what not.
They said that about the "Big Dig" in Boston, but when it was at full employment, a lot of "regular" people were working and buying stuff.
Seems like an odd formula, but you have to spend money to make money.
BTW, I was laid off from a company that made parts for traffic cameras (among other optical stuff), so I hope it goes through.
Posted by RPM (Member # 2895) on :
we had trickle down economics.. now we need trickle up economics.
with a 'bail-out' plan that rids the average joe of his debt (the middle class and below....) the person isn't strapped for cash.. and can now focus on living from paycheck to paycheck as he was already doing, but now not splitting his tiny check with a bank.
being that americans are conditioned to spend, he/she will feel free to live a little more comfortably. granted, with the credit freeze, he/she won't get back into debt. but the money that was going to debt payment will go to stuff that he can afford to pay for in cash.
with more stuff being bought by cash, the money stays in the local economy and circulates. the companys that produce will be selling and thus not laying off as aggressively. the economy will start to rebound.
and as the government continue to pour out money on 'stimuls' programs, more jobs will be created.
we may not be able to quickly get back to our credit lifestyle.. but we'll be more fiscally responsible and live within our means.. the odds of a crazy bubble happening will be less, because there is no credit to fuel those huge bubbles.
but our economy will be moving forward. later on, we'll sort out the credit deal.
right now, we need folks to feel more confident to spend instead of holding on to whatever penny they got.
as for the wealthy... they have a different mindset. this is not hurting them nearly as much as the rest of us. should they opt to "invest" in the system, it will free up credit.. especially when debts are wiped out and investments aren't laiden with toxic debt.
it's complex. too many self interest at the table.. the best economic minds are operating with the assumptions that old rules with tweaking will work.
the reality is that we've got a whole new economy in the making. one with much different rules.. one that could potentially work without credit.. i suspect that the pork-loving-lawmakers don't want this new economy to rise fast.. because it puts a lot of lobbyist and special interest groups at risk of feeling our pain!!!! they can't allow that.
but, in the next decade, the new economy will arise. the trick is to avoid being laid-off.. or better yet, finding a way to survive and make money without depending on one source of income.. until things sort themselves out.
RPM
p.s. it's my personal opinion that we could have turned this thing around this year had the media not freaked everyone out of the marketplace and the size of the stimulus package was trimmed down a bit(ok, a lot). but just a matter of opinion
Posted by Toetapper (Member # 6473) on :
Allow me to propose "Rebound Economics": Money spent on one end of the economic ladder returns to the other end.
It is my guess that it must start with the wealthy (those with extra-disposable income) who invest to create/augment their own wealth. These are the ones who put other people to work creating and manufacturing items which others need or desire. The populace buys it, returning the money to various rungs up the ladder who, eventually, re-invest it to create more wealth. This reinvestment goes to those with time and talent who use it to create more procucts...And so on.
Taxes pull money away from its travel both up and down the ladder.
It's late. I hope my notion makes some sense.
An afterthought in keeping with the topic: Our beloved and beneficent Leader despises this process.
[ March 29, 2009, 02:54 AM: Message edited by: Toetapper ]
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
Toetapper: That is a great explanation, in fact we need to keep the "middle wealth" holders {CEO's of midline corps like window manufacturers, building products, assembly line type companies} in business so they can employ more more people without being taxed to death. The US needs more manufacturing and productive LONG TERM job sources, not jobs for 6 months-year where once their project is done it's over like Dog Parks lol. Keynesian economics is the most bogus B.S. theory ever and it duped all these poor college students into voting a certain way and having a false hope that printing trillions of dollars will miraculously fix the economy. 1,100 page long bill and no one read it..that is Taxation without representation.
Posted by RPM (Member # 2895) on :
agreed... more long-term job creation... the short-term jobs they're talking about is to get folks money to spend now. (but it's a tricky mule to lead)
the ladder analogy, I really love it!! great way to put it.. and taxation will hurt that ladder big time! (and the huge stimulus bill can be read as a huge tax bill)
the stimulus is needed in a way, but later it will tax the crap out of the US for nearly a decade or more!!!
if only i was super wealthy.. then.. maybe, they'd listen to my opinions.. and i'd hire folks to produce my ideas.. and help spread the wealth that way!
![[Blow Job]](graemlins/blowjob.gif)